The B2B Marketing & PR Playbook: How to Build Trust in an AI-era

Welcome everyone and thanks for joining us today. If you work in the events industry, you already know that the marketing landscape has shifted dramatically over the past couple of years. AI is changing how content gets made, how brands show up and how buyers make decisions. The question is no longer whether to engage with that shift, but how to do it without losing what makes your brand distinct. And that's exactly what we're digging into today. And I couldn't have asked for better guests to do it with. Between them, they have a front-row view of how event companies are adapting their marketing and communications in real time. So let's get into it. Kat, Stef, welcome. You're super famous, I know. And LinkedIn, everyone knows you. And I get your posts every two minutes to see because there's so many comments and likes and everything. But not everyone knows you. Perhaps, can you introduce yourself? Definitely. Kat, you first, please. Yeah, thank you so much for having us. Really excited for today's session. My name is Kat Kevin. I'm the founder and MD of Electric Kat. And we are an event industry marketing and PR agency, really specializing on working with suppliers and agencies on their marketing. But that gives us a really good overview of what's happening. We've worked with over eighty companies. clients in the industry over the last couple of years so it's been an exciting journey and hopefully we'll have lots to share on that and then source of my other hat is now we the network of women in events and we are a community first and foremost we're a network of women who all work in and around the events industry and everything we do is to empower our community through peer-to-peer support we do events networking and also a mentorship program so that's pretty much me in a nutshell wonderful The more famous one goes first. Then I'm Stephanie. Hello, everyone. So I also wear several hats. First and foremost, I'm an event MC. So I'm often doing what you're doing today, Tamir, and welcoming events and hosting conversations. It's quite weird being on the other side, but looking forward to it. But I also very much work in the marketing space as well. I freelance for Electric Cat. I work with lots of clients in the events industry. I also work with some other clients. all in the events industry working on their their marketing and pr strategies to build their you know brand awareness within the event space so um yeah hopefully lots of interesting insights to share today thanks for having us definitely yeah as you said being on the other side is always challenging as for me as well i'm uh quite often asked sometimes and uh yeah but i'm uh comparing to you i'm old school so i spent twenty five years doing this stuff and we did not have much help at the beginning you there was no even linkedin we had just a proper peer channel so we had to write everything by ourselves and there was a people who uh actually helped us at least with grammar and proper lecturing all that stuff time has changed and changed really radically and today i am opening my LinkedIn and having wonderful posts. Everything is perfect. Everything is well written. And so it smells like AI. It doesn't smell really genuine, doesn't smell really natural. It is something that I somehow do not trust. So we have those topics that everything's gotten so easy, fast, but somehow it lacks substance. It lacks a lot of stuff. what is your take on marketing today and pr today if you look into it does ai replace marketers do we need you is it easier or is it more complicated cat you first again it's a good question i mean i guess I don't know where to start answering it because there are so many tools that we now have at our disposal. There are so many channels that we have that we can tap into. I think we talk a lot in B to B. So we're LinkedIn, as you sort of mentioned, it's very much our bread and butter. there is an absolute overwhelm. We do see clients come to us and say, should I be doing email marketing? Should I be on TikTok? Should I be here? And it's really hard. I think the volume is getting easier to produce thanks to AI, but equally we're falling into a bit of a trap where it can become a bit samey and repetitive. And perhaps that's what, as you mentioned, it kind of lacks that substance, that personality. I think AI is definitely helping to speed things up and we can definitely use it. And we do it at Electric Cat and we're very transparent with all of our clients. You know, it's not a, we're not billing and then ai does it and then that's it we're um you know feet up on the beach kind of thing it's anything that we can use that will help us to speed things up for our clients it means that we can work more efficiently and work on the more strategic elements that ai will struggle to to connect those dots but um yeah it's definitely making life easier in some regards but it is making it harder to stand out in another for sure Yeah. And I think we were just talking about this. This is all we talk about. It's like the barriers to entry is much lower in terms of marketing PR. Like literally anybody can do it now with ChatGPT. But will it actually be good? I think that's the important question. And do you know what you're doing and the point of everything you're doing? So just taking social media posts, for example. We've all seen hundreds now of posts, whether it's LinkedIn, Instagram, like any social platform, and even like email marketing and everything. You can almost tell when it's been written by ChachiBT. But I feel like now we're even past that where, like you said to me, we don't trust anything. Even if it wasn't written by ChachiBT, we're just like assuming it was because it's all spelt correctly or someone uses an em dash. And we think we know. And so you're right, that trust is kind of going. um but there are i think that's why marketing teams and pr is more important than ever because whether you're trying to sell tickets to events or whether you're trying to sell your services whatever that might be people are wanting to buy from people they trust and how are they going to do that well it's like it's getting to know you through authentic social media posts through authentic PR strategies, whatever that might be. It might be print media. It might be speaking on panels like we're doing now. It could be being on podcasts or whatever it is and happy to chat about Strategies for doing all of that. But just posting a social media post that Chachapati splurted out and you've maybe, you've been like, write me a post about event marketing. Done. People are going to tell that it's not you. Like people want to hear from you and they want it to be authentic. The problem as well, though, is we're all so super busy. You know, we've got a million other things to do. Not every individual is a marketing expert. So telling people that they've got to be building their personal brand and spending lots of time on it being authentic, I realize is also kind of unrealistic. And that's where both AI helps. As do professionals like Kat and myself. And I'm not here to be an advert for Electric Kat, but everyone in the team, you know, we know what we're doing. We know what works well. We've got the connections in the PR space and we can get things done to a really high standard really quickly for those that can then focus on what they're doing. So I think, yeah, go ahead. I was having a webinar with Kolja from Vogue Times Worldwide CEO, and the topic was avoiding the age of average. Exactly what happens is because everyone has access to the same tools and everyone asks the same question. So most likely everyone will get the same answer. So what we will get is that everyone posts the same story about themselves. This is generally boring. And I know as I was running my companies the last three years, and if I worked with a PR agency, I always wanted them to write something genuine about us, something to distinguish us from the others. So is this small thing that you can do for the people? So you can distinguish them to write something that feels authentic, that will develop connections to the brand and to the message. Is it something like this? yeah yeah and maybe just really quickly to anyone in the audience if you want to leave in the chat what you do your role or your company or any information then that will really help us uh give some really tailored answers here and we can kind of try to to give advice based on your roles and what you do so do use the chat if um if you want to or ask any questions um But yeah, I definitely agree with what you're saying. You know, when we look at, so for us, I think the really important part that needs to be done by a human is that So when we onboard a client, we will always do what we call like a strategic onboarding questionnaire. We try and cover as much as we can in that rather than kind of say, great, we're working together. And then a month later, two months later, an opportunity comes up like, oh, I wonder what their stance is on that. Or, oh, who would be the best person in the company to talk about this? So there's a really big part. And I think this is a really good exercise for any company, whether that's like an event marketing or whether that's B to B on the supply side or whoever you're trying to market to. perhaps it'll be easier for us as a third party agency because we have to do that we're not in the day-to-day and so we don't see and hear and we can't see what it says on the walls the values you know like these are the things that we kind of as a third party we have to be quite mindful of how do we really capture the essence of the vibe the the team what they stand for who they're trying to be like what does success look like for them so I think doing that really human strategic onboarding piece means that it gives us really good insight into the business, what they stand for, who are those people, how do they talk? And when we are representing them through PR or social, really, it's so important that that tone of voice gets translated properly because I always find AI is kind of like anything. You get out what you put in. And so, yes, it's quite easy to go, Literally in a day, you could code a website, vibe code a website, come up with a social strategy, a whole business plan. But we are seeing a couple of businesses and I do get quite a lot of outreach come through to my LinkedIn or email people that have got this business and they do this or that. And I look into it and I think. I have no idea who this person is. We have no mutual connections, you know. And I think that is kind of one of the reasons that PR is having a big comeback is that anyone, especially in tech or some of the more faceless kind of brands, that you can promise you're the biggest, you're the best, you've got the best tech, you've got the best solutions, that you've got the best reviews. But that is nowadays, it's just words. And what you really need is words. those voices of people in your clients, your team, your freelancers, these people and these other associations or organisations like Now We, like associations in general, can be, for me, if I then land on a website and I can see all that the founder. Oh, we've got four team mutual connections. Oh, I go to the meet the team page. Oh, there's Sam and Harry and whoever. And it's real people. And I can really look back and I can see that history. And then I look at the logo board. I think, oh, so-and-so used them. I know them. I think what PR can really do is it builds that social proof and social proof is becoming more and more important along with the more technical side of the backlinks and the where you're showing up but that human side on on the strategy the positioning and I'm really leveraging people's personal brands to be those ambassadors for those different topics within the company because it any company is going to have different things they want to talk about different audiences so if we take like a tech brand the cto will really talk to those technical people and then maybe the account manager is a lot more personal and bubbly and and fun and so that would relate more to maybe some of the younger audience members or maybe someone very senior than maybe this ceo or md they can be positioned as that outlook what's happening in the world right now and how that's affecting our business and so there's there's loads i mean there's loads to be said around that definitely if i can sign up there's nothing bad in using ai but the key in getting connections and building community is being authentic actually providing real value right yeah i think one of the best ways to use it is is really once you've got that call this is who we are this is what we stand for these are the target clients we're going after And this is the campaign. This is the messaging. And then, OK, can you turn that into a longer form piece of copy? Can you write? I do it like, for instance, if I'm participating in an event, I want to do multiple posts. Like, of course, it saves me so much time. And then I can do it all in one go. It's almost like this is the core and this is what's right. Everything else can be translated and adapted to fit the different mediums and different platforms. Yeah, definitely. And just to touch on something Kat said that I can tell you're interested in. Obviously, more and more people are using AI to research and ask questions now. Which is the best event to attend if I'm an event marketer? Or which one hundred events are happening in Europe around this topic? Or who's the best AV supplier in London? Big question. There's a lot of them. realizing how to get your company or event as the answer to those questions is such a huge piece that I think not as many people are thinking about as they should be and of course we're going to say this but it is true that PR really really adds to that because I mean the way that ChatsBT or whichever search function you're using the way it works changes weekly and We were having a conversation about this a few months ago with someone in the know, weren't we, Kat? And our little minds were blown. But they don't just pull from one source. It's many, many sources. So if you've been featured in different print media publications, if you've been on different podcasts, spoken at different events, your team, the companies you're working at are posting across different social platforms. It all adds up and that's where it gets all of this information from. So this is why PR is having a comeback and like authentic PR, not just SEO friendly blogs on your website. I mean, they still help, but it's got to be more than that now. Yeah, well, this is a time of massive scale. So whatever you write, whatever you published as thousands of thousands of people that get in touch with that. So building community in the past was all about the numbers. You know, I have one million followers, so I'm super important, all this stuff. And then we slowly started asking questions about conversion. So from your point of view, what is the community of today? Is it all about the numbers or is it about authenticity, personal brand? What is that convert? What would you recommend? Well, there's lots of, I think there's no one answer for everyone. I definitely think that's what's really key in all of this is that you need to find what works for you and that what works for me might not work for you and what works for Steph might not work for someone else. And so I see it more around testing. So I actually went to a talk, Steph, you missed this one. It was at Cannes. It was the CMO of Duolingo. And I just thought it was fascinating. I really loved how they explained is that they put seventy five percent of their budget on doubling down on what's already working so that's the that's the bread and butter whatever it is that's getting them those downloads whether that's the video content whatever for them it'll be a bit different because it's more b to c but then they save twenty five percent for experimentation. And this is something that we're constantly doing at Electric Cat is that we know where our leads are coming from. We know how much comes from different platforms and different partnerships, different referrals versus lead gen. And so we'll always keep a little bit of budget at the moment. We're looking at how can we expand into new markets. So we're looking to put a little bit of budget into how we can do that. working with a consultant on a specific project. We're hosting our own event. This is the first time we've ever done it, but it's quite a significant budget for us as a small business. But these are things that I genuinely do believe work and you kind of have to test it and try it. And we had a podcast previously. So we do kind of test... try and test different areas and then you kind of have to learn by doing really whether was it something that missed the mark or is it just not right and if so it's maybe is it a case of tweaking next time making it bigger or doing a bit less of one element and more of another but I always, I'm such a big believer, I genuinely, I think I'm absolute living, walking proof that personal brand is just so important. And I think Steph is also really, really good with personal brand. And I think there's a lot of misconceptions. We could do a whole talk around personal branding and why it's important. Obviously, I always kind of caveat, if you're looking to sell the business as a founder, maybe try not to have, that as your main source of client acquisition, because obviously if we remove you, where does that pipeline come from? So that is something to kind of caveat, but nine times out of ten when you're scaling, the most important thing is that a possible investor is going to look at, it's going to be your profit and your client base. So ultimately, whatever, especially in early days of business, I think as you scale, it's important to kind of move away from the founder personal branding and move more into team member personal branding, because that does work really, really well. I'd love to actually shout out, there's an app that hasn't even launched yet, and I get their content on Instagram all the time. It was almost annoying, but actually now I've looked into it. I think it's bloody brilliant. They really explain what they're doing at the same time. So it's called Kinso, K-I-N-S-O. And I actually really do think their product looks cool, is that they've come up with the concept of it's one platform that pulls all the information from your WhatsApp, your Slack, your emails, your Gmail, your Outlook, your calendar, and you can go... when was that meeting with that person? Or can you pull the notes? I can't find the notes. Or you can't remember if it's like, we'll talk on LinkedIn. We talk on email. We talk on text. We've got a group chat. Where did I send that information about that thing? So basically, they haven't even launched the platform. But what they have done is they've documented the journey as they go along. Very brave. But they could never be me. What they've done is they've really given those different team members their personality as if it was a Netflix show. And they talk about this very openly. They've got their young marketers who are like the Gen Z TikTokers and they go around, they're doing funny videos. And then they've got the founder who obviously speaks more to the other founders. And I just think that, yeah, there's so much to be done around that. people buy from people and AI I think is just reinforcing that so ironically in a world of AI one of the best ways to stand out is being different and that's something that we're very very keen on at Electric Cat is that we don't do a rinse and repeat one size fits all new client comes on board input into the template like it's very personalized and we try and really understand the audience and what that business is trying to achieve. Yeah. And I think you touched on something I was about to bring up as well, Shaka, which is like being true to your voice. I was going to say having fun, but like not every company is like fun, like ElectroCat. And that wouldn't be true to them. But I think just like not being afraid to be yourself. I think especially in the like B to B space and the big event space. People can feel a little bit afraid to have fun with their marketing, feel like they've got to stick to the more old school ways of doing things, which might still work for them. And if it does, then great. But if it's not working, maybe ask yourself why and what you could change. And just in terms of your question, Damir, on more event marketing side of things and building community for events, I think it's so, so interesting how much the change has happened in the last couple of years about people wanting to grow their events. They wanted them to be bigger, better, you know, for whatever reason. And I think now this year, all I'm hearing from people is they want smaller events. They want them better curated. Like they want the right people in the room. Doesn't matter if that's, Ten people, a hundred people, a thousand people. But it's not just like, let's just fill halls with lots and lots of people and that'll be great. So I'm really seeing a big shift to smaller, like, fifty or less events. Quite often they're like fringe events on the side of bigger conferences. I know they've always been a thing, but they really feel like that's what people are investing a lot of their time and money in. And that's building the community though, because the people attending them know that everyone else that's there is going to be relevant to them. They're all going to have similar job titles, similar challenges, similar budgets and that kind of thing. So they're not only networking with their peers and building their own community, Whoever's put on the event, obviously, it's helping their purpose as well, whatever that might be. But just one interesting example of building community at a large event. So I do some work with Ingo, who do referral marketing on a mass scale in a really kind of authentic and personalized way. They worked with Workday, an event that's twenty thousand plus people. notoriously really hard to get community feel at an event that large um but they did something really cool with a company called story craft lab where um i'm really butchering it to be quick but basically they did um profile quizzes beforehand so everybody you didn't have to do it but you could fill in a quiz beforehand that shared what your kind of profile was and um some of the examples were like you know the the thinker the idea person the rare unicorn that's like all of them And then so I think about two thousand people did it of these twenty thousand. That's ten percent. And then people were sharing on LinkedIn that they'd done it and they were like, oh, I'm I'm a unicorn. Where are the unicorns at? And then they did networking meetings on site at the event, like multiple different ones. So all the unicorns would get together and people were just like, oh, my God, I finally found my fellow people. And it just built excitement and community. And I just thought it was such an amazing example. I was really enjoying working on the case study for that. So I wanted to share like it's possible to build ongoing community. And now people are excited about it for next year as well. And they know where their fellow groups are. And that can work on any scale between, like I said, the fifty people events through to the huge tens of thousands of people. It's hopefully an interesting example. no it's a great example and it touches actually the purpose of what we are doing what we're doing we are not here to connect ai with ai we try to connect people to each other and small events allows you to have a genuine conversation so basically to actually connect with someone who is interested in what you're doing and well i i'm you know that i'm big in business matchmaking i believe that ai can help us actually connect people who have events with hundred thousand people and you can have like ten fifteen talks per day that really makes sense you can't really talk with two hundred people but how to meet them so AI can help with that. But in this case, just presenting AI content online will not bring this authenticity, will not bring your personal brand. I know that lots of people who are watching this webinar are saying, yeah, it's easy for you, Steph, you're already established and so easy to have your personal brand, but I don't have it. How should I start? So the very small steps are, as I hear from you, just trust yourself there to share proper content help with ai help with the proper agency that can identify the story because i think we are all about storytelling that's what we want to do to share what's really inside what is important to bring the story out of that and that's what everyone is about. And that's why I'm super, super happy to have you both on our In Control Summit, because I think we should have this conversation. We should have not only panels, we should have sessions, show that people can do something. And from your side, is it hard to start? Is it easy or is it hard? I'll take this one first if you want Kat, I keep throwing it to you. It's interesting what you say about saying like, oh, you're already established, Steph, because I still don't necessarily feel that is the case because it's just been such a long process. That being said, it is easier to start. It's more of a mind frame thing, I think. um like everyone says your personal brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room so even if you are currently invisible online you don't you know speak on any panels or whatever it might be you still have a personal brand it's probably just a bit smaller and it's what like your colleagues and people you've worked with or friends are saying about you and hopefully it's all good things But it is incredible how quickly things can change once you start like posting on LinkedIn, for example. That is like the main thing, doing it constantly, as you know. We're not special. We're no like different or better than like most other people. We're just being consistent with putting ourselves out there. And it is uncomfortable to start with. And it does feel a bit icky. And you think everyone's going to be laughing at me. But you just have to push through that because on the other side, it's just opportunities, like feeling your authentic self and like finding your people and building your community back to your earlier point. So I know it can be challenging. And maybe it's easier for people like me and Kat who are generally fairly confident. But we still... We still have our own confidence issues we have to overcome and we still put ourselves out there. And I mean, Kat can speak to this as well. The opportunities we get from it are just so, so worth that initial bit of cringe. So I do recommend people do it. And it doesn't have to be video. You don't have to tell your whole life story as well. I think a lot of people worry they're going to have to start talking about, you know, their family. Yeah, because some people do and that's fine. And I, you know, there's some things I talk about, there's some things I don't. it's up to you you can just speak about work what are you doing what are you working on what are you excited about um anyway I'll let Kat share some thoughts now yeah I think I actually digressed in my previous point when I was talking I sort of went down that route and then just went down a completely different route in the end but I really I can't stress enough that whether you're You're using it for your company as an additional platform to produce, to get the message across for your event, whether you're an ambassador for your company and you're looking to grow the business. But it's always going to be twofold. It will benefit you and the company. And so I just think it's brilliant. And as an employer, I always encourage the team to be as active as they can on LinkedIn because, you know, OK, yes, maybe one day they will leave. For me, I don't see that as lost time or money, that while they are with the business, they should be advocates because it just builds trust and all the things that we've touched on already. But yeah, many opportunities will come and so many people don't post on LinkedIn on their personal profile. I've read various different stats, but let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let's say, let I get stuff in my inbox. Obviously, I get a whole load of spam, but I also get some really, really interesting. I got invited to a football match the other day to go watch the women's football Chelsea Arsenal game. I get opportunities to speak. People message me. I get inquiries for the business. People see it. They read it and they resonate. And exactly, as Steph said, consistency is key. There's nothing that we're doing that there's no... Once there's no secret, of course, we've got tricks and hacks. But again, what works for Steph, Steph has her own style. And that is quite different to how I speak and how I come across and the topics that we talk about. But it's always so ironic. And I'm sure anyone who's quite well versed in LinkedIn, they will say the same thing that people, the post where you post about something a bit personal is, the thought leadership ones sometimes actually don't land because I think the problem is we're almost in that reverse flip side where everyone's trying to be a thought leader at the end of the day if you actually look at the definition of thought leadership is that it has to be a challenging thought that is challenging conventional thinking or ways of doing things and being a leader and if everyone's a leader no one is a leader so it does kind of devalue that so I I think, again, people can fall into the trap of it coming across salesy. Like, I see my personal profile, if we're thinking about the traditional marketing funnel, I see it as top of funnel. People need to know about you to gain your trust to buy from you. And if they don't know about you, they won't buy from you. And if you try and sell to them there, it would be the example I always give when people... make you know I've been posting but I'm not getting anything but you're building your network and your awareness and people hear about you and I'd rather you have ten likes on that post they're all potential buyers or attendees or clients than a hundred who are just randos that you've just been adding and adding and adding because you're adding fifteen people a day like that to me is completely irrelevant so So, yeah. Don't get worked up about the numbers. That's what I'll say. I don't think I've ever gone viral, ever. And I'd like to, but it's fine. Well, I did. I did several times. And there are side effects of that as well. I was once, I don't know, many years ago, I posted a plank and said the fastest way to finish your daily meetings is to do it in plank. So, you know, so it went wild. But there is no much, there is one aspect of it. But what I really enjoy... absolutely with you and i believe that we need to share because people need to know certain things otherwise you lost uh you lose connection i was speaking on monday on a congress here in germany or event industry congress and well uh there lots of people were surprised with my speech because i was It was fun. I had somehow missed a speaker workshop. I didn't know that I need to prepare something. I thought it was just me speaking. So everyone else came with PowerPoint slides. We prepared everything. And I was like, oops, I don't have any slides. That's the classic me move right there. I just took a mic and went to stage and said, let's talk about business. I will not present anything. I will just introduce. This industry has a lot of arms and legs, and everything is done with effort. If you are... Short before deadline, you will work twice as much, twenty four hours a day and everything. And so everyone wishes to have more time back and basically to earn more money. And so I will explain how we achieved that with this. And people loved it because it was a genuine conversation. It was not a presentation. It was just something that I shared from my side. And then I brought this back to LinkedIn because we had no chance to talk to each other on this event because it's one hundred people, you can't talk to all of them. But I got a lot of messages. Can we connect? How about zooming? Here's my calendar. Let's continue this conversation because I was intrigued with your opinion about that. And this is what you shared. Opinion. I was not marketing myself. I just shared my opinion about the subject and I shared some examples how to do things. And those examples produced outcome. And outcome was more time, more money. And Everyone is interested in that. Basically, at the end of the day, this is how you earn respect, how you earn business. And this is what you said, genuine conversation, not marketing and purpose. We are the best company in the world. We have the best product. We have this and that. Everyone is saying. But what I hear from you, we should do it. AI is here to stay and to help us, but will not replace us. It will help us to become better, but still we still need a real stories, real people behind the scenes. And we need also to think about what we are doing to distinguish ourselves from the others, not to just copy paste chat GPT into LinkedIn posts, because this is not the strategy, right? Exactly. And I think as people that work in events, event managers, event marketers, whoever is watching and listening, I think we all know events are becoming more important because of AI, because we need that trust. People want to meet face to face. And I just think that we should be really, I'm trying to think of the right word here, you know, really proud of ourselves and pleased that we're part of an industry that are going to help build that trust and really lean into that. And like, yes, we'll be using AI. Everyone's going to be using AI to help speed things up and you might use it in your marketing, but like how wonderful that we get to facilitate trust. And I think just not forgetting that and really thinking about how you can get that community and connection embedded in in your events as more of a priority. I often find, and it is changing, but often it's like, oh, lunchtime networking. And then it's like, forty minute panel, forty minute panel, thirty minute keynote, and then maybe some networking drinks after. And actually the reason a lot of people are going to events now is to meet other people, build trust, and of course want to learn from great insights on talks as well. But it needs to be more intentional, that community networking side of things. Wouldn't you agree, Damir? Definitely. I can't wait to see what it's like at the event in Dusseldorf for the second. I'm really looking forward. And just by looking at this conversation, I was listening and I was really amazed. So many insights. And I think we can fill like two hours, just as you said, personal branding or this and that conversion community. Those are wonderful topics, but we are over time already. So do you have some last thoughts and something that we will share with the audience from your side? No, you go first. It's funny, I always ask this question and I'm not prepared for it today. I just think it can be overwhelming. AI is everywhere. There's a lot of pressure for people to use it and to utilize it. And from what I hear from conversations I'm part of, everyone feels like they're behind. So I'd say you're not behind. Just experiment with it. Come to the event on the second of June and we can find out more on how to use it. And if anybody wants to connect with me and Kat, we would absolutely love to and keep the conversation going. And actually, I just want to quickly say, Damir, I think your your personal brand is very good. I'm always very impressed with your LinkedIn posts. And I feel like you're a celebrity, actually. There we go. Yeah, we saw that photo with Bill Gates. That's probably another story for another time. But yeah, I think probably what I would say is don't be afraid to be bold and try something different, something a bit niche. And rather than kind of looking at what others are doing and replicating that image, try and just think outside the box and if AI can help accelerate or you know move that along a bit faster or make life a bit easier like use it for the mundane tasks to free up your headspace to really work on those niche ideas or those partnerships or whatever that might be that AI just wouldn't be able to do like really really be intentional with how you're using AI and And yet exactly as Steph said, everyone feels like they're behind and there is no magic solution just yet. So yeah, just keep playing and experimenting and remaining strategic in what you do. wonderful no i thank you for the flowers and i can give it back really uh both of you are just amazing not only offline but online as well and and and just to point out there are two posts that really resonated with me cat your post with hyrox training after a hard event and uh step your post about mistakes because you dared to share but things that did not went well lots of people are just posting success success success we don't learn from the we just got motivated but from mistakes you'll learn everything but i think this is the conversation we want to have i'm so happy that we will continue having it thank you so much for joining me and thank you for this wonderful webinar and um i'm looking forward to this love thank you thank you so much for having us thank you bye